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Post subject: Re: Oni-II Title Page Conversion
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 3:20 pm 
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Hmmm... I'm not sure if including the term Bakumatsu is really "translating" the title. Sure, it's what it reads, but from what I've gathered on Wikipedia, the word Bakumatsu refers to the final years of the Edo Period. Wouldn't it be better to find a suitable, English alternative? Then again, I'm the member who likes keeping Japanese-sounding terms in the translations, so take what I just wrote with a very small grain of salt ;)


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Post subject: Re: Oni-II Title Page Conversion
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 3:55 pm 
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Draken wrote:
Hmmm... I'm not sure if including the term Bakumatsu is really "translating" the title. Sure, it's what it reads, but from what I've gathered on Wikipedia, the word Bakumatsu refers to the final years of the Edo Period. Wouldn't it be better to find a suitable, English alternative? Then again, I'm the member who likes keeping Japanese-sounding terms in the translations, so take what I just wrote with a very small grain of salt ;)
Yep, and I wanted to translate Feng Shui into something that made sense to me, then my younger son went out and got himself a Taiwanese girl friend, and they arranged their whole place around this. Well, I walked around, and they explained everything in their abode. "Shoot," I said, "I played the darn game, and I still don't get it!" One thing I did note, however... These two starving musicians didn't have a lot of gold lying around loose, organized for maximum flow, portal creation, or anything else!


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Post subject: Re: Oni-II Title Page Conversion
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:52 pm 
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No, I don't feel we really need to translate this term, as this won't be the only Japanese term left in this game. There will be a small number of Japanese terms left in this game. It is no harder than remembering the names of made up organizations or people in a game. I'm sure we'll find a place to explain what the term means at some point.

If people have an issue with a small amount of Japanese terminology, Oni II is not a game they should be playing. It is steeped in Japanese folklore and I personally do not want that eastern flair westernized. Now that isn't to say that there aren't places where westernizing won't be done, I'm not going to give you overload, but there are just some things that you can't or shouldn't westernize. A good example: I'm not going to call the Shinsengumi something like Ghostbusters just because they're off busting ghosts in the game. The Shinsengumi was a real Japanese force at the end of the Edo period. Sorry, not happening. However, I'm fine with calling a Miko a Shrine Maiden. Yet I'm not okay with calling a youkai or Oni and such as a ghost, spirit or other English term. They might be a somewhat close representation, but they are not an exact representation, and we can explain what a youkai and/or Oni is and move on. Heck, the title Oni is a Japanese term which is something like Demon or Devil. So, technically the English title is Demon/Devil II. Oni just sounds so much nicer.

It amazes me that people get bent out of shape about learning 20 or so foreign terms and their meaning sometimes but you can give them 500+ made up terms that only fit in the universe of a game like Shelldorado in Super Shell Monster Story and that is no issue. And, I'm not saying everyone is like this, but the next time you find yourself thinking, "Why didn't they translate this term into something more western friendly?", stop and think if remembering that term is any harder than remembering some made up term in some other fantasy game set in another world. You'll realize pretty quickly that learning a few foreign terms is not going to make your brain explode, you do it in other games, its just in those games its not the thought that it is a foreign term.


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Post subject: Re: Oni-II Title Page Conversion
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:51 pm 
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taskforce wrote:
No, I don't feel we really need to translate this term, as this won't be the only Japanese term left in this game. There will be a small number of Japanese terms left in this game. It is no harder than remembering the names of made up organizations or people in a game. I'm sure we'll find a place to explain what the term means at some point.

If people have an issue with a small amount of Japanese terminology, Oni II is not a game they should be playing. It is steeped in Japanese folklore and I personally do not want that eastern flair westernized. Now that isn't to say that there aren't places where westernizing won't be done, I'm not going to give you overload, but there are just some things that you can't or shouldn't westernize. A good example: I'm not going to call the Shinsengumi something like Ghostbusters just because they're off busting ghosts in the game. The Shinsengumi was a real Japanese force at the end of the Edo period. Sorry, not happening. However, I'm fine with calling a Miko a Shrine Maiden. Yet I'm not okay with calling a youkai or Oni and such as a ghost, spirit or other English term. They might be a somewhat close representation, but they are not an exact representation, and we can explain what a youkai and/or Oni is and move on. Heck, the title Oni is a Japanese term which is something like Demon or Devil. So, technically the English title is Demon/Devil II. Oni just sounds so much nicer.

It amazes me that people get bent out of shape about learning 20 or so foreign terms and their meaning sometimes but you can give them 500+ made up terms that only fit in the universe of a game like Shelldorado in Super Shell Monster Story and that is no issue. And, I'm not saying everyone is like this, but the next time you find yourself thinking, "Why didn't they translate this term into something more western friendly?", stop and think if remembering that term is any harder than remembering some made up term in some other fantasy game set in another world. You'll realize pretty quickly that learning a few foreign terms is not going to make your brain explode, you do it in other games, its just in those games its not the thought that it is a foreign term.
And this is why TF is doing the first pass on the game. We kept Dousen and Feng Shui in Chaos Seed when we could have called them a "Hermit Mage" and a "Wind-Water Harmony Enhancing System" (or whatever).

Well, we have a Hermit Crab and rather balmy Great Gnome in SSMS-I and II, so that takes care of the hermit and mage biz-ness for a while. But these Shinsengumi are deadly serious about this youkai-busting enterprise. They'll even bust down doors wherever their enemies are lurking. The fact that youkai can suddenly attain human form appears to portend dynastic-level changes looming in Nippon's immediate future!


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Post subject: Re: Oni-II Title Page Conversion
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:13 pm 
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taskforce wrote:
No, I don't feel we really need to translate this term, as this won't be the only Japanese term left in this game.

It probably goes without saying that I'm with TF on this. It's going to be a term about Japanese history one way or the other. Neither "The late Tokugawa Shogunate", "the end of the Edo period" nor "the Bakumatsu" are necessarily going to be familiar to many westerners.

Agreeing that "The story of the start of the end of the Edo period" is awkward as a direct translation, "The Dawn of the Bakumatsu" concisely states the previous. Alternately, as it's the final game (I think?), if we want to focus more on the fact that it's the beginning of an end, WB's original "The End of the Edo Period", or "Decline of the Tokugawa" are also appropriate.


The Devil takes notes from Lina Inverse? That sounds about right.

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Post subject: Re: Oni-II Title Page Conversion
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:24 am 
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Ooh! So much discussion! I only made the suggestion because of the changes we made to the SSMS title way back in the beginning. As I stated, I like using Japanese terms in games where it adds to the story and there is no appropriate English term. I only mentioned changing Bakumatsu because it is not a word ever used in English (not in the dictionary at least). No problem not changing it, though! I'm cool with Bakumatsu if everyone else is ;)


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Post subject: Re: Oni-II Title Page Conversion
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:42 am 
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Draken wrote:
Ooh! So much discussion! I only made the suggestion because of the changes we made to the SSMS title way back in the beginning. As I stated, I like using Japanese terms in games where it adds to the story and there is no appropriate English term. I only mentioned changing Bakumatsu because it is not a word ever used in English (not in the dictionary at least). No problem not changing it, though! I'm cool with Bakumatsu if everyone else is ;)


Sorry Draken, I wasn't meaning to jump all over you honest. I just wanted to make a point about there being so much flack over this sometimes when there shouldn't be for a game set in Japan. Sure, a game set in alternativeland might not need those Japanese terms, but a game set in Japanese history revolving around Japanese beliefs, mythologies and folklore is different. Anyway, I'm going on a rant again and that isn't my intention. Just wanted to apologize, I didn't mean to direct that at you before, just a general statement.


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Post subject: Re: Oni-II Title Page Conversion
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:02 am 
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taskforce wrote:
Draken wrote:
Ooh! So much discussion! I only made the suggestion because of the changes we made to the SSMS title way back in the beginning. As I stated, I like using Japanese terms in games where it adds to the story and there is no appropriate English term. I only mentioned changing Bakumatsu because it is not a word ever used in English (not in the dictionary at least). No problem not changing it, though! I'm cool with Bakumatsu if everyone else is ;)


Sorry Draken, I wasn't meaning to jump all over you honest. I just wanted to make a point about there being so much flack over this sometimes when there shouldn't be for a game set in Japan. Sure, a game set in alternativeland might not need those Japanese terms, but a game set in Japanese history revolving around Japanese beliefs, mythologies and folklore is different. Anyway, I'm going on a rant again and that isn't my intention. Just wanted to apologize, I didn't mean to direct that at you before, just a general statement.
Phew! Off it goes to FlashPV...

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Where the Kanji is in the graphic, it will read:

Dawn of the Bakumatsu

or

Dawn of the
Bakumatsu

Whatever works and fits best.


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Post subject: Re: Oni-II Title Page Conversion
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:19 pm 
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Here is FlashPV's first (and maybe only) version of the English title page. As always, he conveys that mods are always feasible.

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Post subject: Re: Oni-II Title Page Conversion
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:59 pm 
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Wildbill wrote:
Here is FlashPV's first (and maybe only) version of the English title page. As always, he conveys that mods are always feasible.

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nice, i like the FX in the ONI writing. so u decided against the other writing saying "dawn of the bakumatsu" or whatever then?


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