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Post subject: Re: SSMS Criticism
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:59 am 
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As I mentioned earlier, the areas I had problems with in SSMS were those in which a political message had been incorporated. The "God" references didn't bother me because for the vast majority, they were already in the original script. I could list dozens of instances in which the word "god" (in Japanese, of course) appears in the original text, but I don't think that would change your mind. The fact that a reference is made to "Jonah and the whale" (and does not even attempt to teach scripture or change anyone's mind on religion) should not be a big deal. To my knowledge, no religious censorship exists in the patch, and I don't know why you'd assume there would be...?

On to Zak... If you'd looked at the project page, you'd notice WildBill's name absent (he seems to be the person you have a giant beef with). He was on hiatus when this project was handled, and I was the translator/editor/writer/coordinator for the game in its entirety. As stated in the readme and all over the place, the translation was based off the French scripts. It's very possible that something is not 100% in-line with the original text, but that is exactly why I was frank about the translation process. I can assure you there were zero religious references added, nor where there any political messages added to the scripts.

This brings me to localization... You are NEVER going to get an exact translation in all of the games you play, whether they are fan translations or official ones. As someone mentioned earlier, there are some references that will be lost in translation, and you are forced to look for suitable replacements. In addition, sometimes the material is soooooo bland. I could give you examples from G.O.D. where the dialog was so boring and uninspiring - a series of A: Huh? B: What...? C: Who? A: Oh, my. This kind of crap dialog (even the translator melonseller commented on how bad the script was) just begs for some spicing up, and I could never release a project with such terrible writing. Before I attempt to add better dialog (always staying in the area of the original translation), I ask the translator's permission first because I never want him/her to feel like I've butchered his/her hard work. Translation can take a lot of effort and research at times, and having someone go in and totally change something you spent an hour piecing together could be frustrating.

You know... When you first posted, I had really hoped that it would have opened up a great conversation. I was really looking forward to speaking with someone who had played through the game (have you ever played any of our games?) and would have some real criticism. As I've mentioned before, I LOVE getting feedback. When I have beta testers working for me, I always encourage them to pick apart all the text and contact me with ANY LITTLE THING that they think sounds weird. I do this because I always want to produce the most playable patch for the most people. Sadly, though, I'm not sure you have the right "ammo" to sit down and take shots at us... I still strongly encourage you to play through the games you are criticizing, but we both know that's not going to happen.


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Post subject: Re: SSMS Criticism
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:07 am 
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Yep, you guys are family, my brothers. Like many brothers, we occasionally have fusses. At the end of the day we have perspective. I don't need to define that, knowing that none of us has ever set out to intentionally ruffle another. Our work reflects it. That's called respect, a dignity we retain in a "gimme sumptin' free" world increasingly devoid of civility, even though many good folks always drop by to say thanks. This continues to make sharing our patches with the general public worthwhile. That said, I'm back to work with my limited hobby time, trying to work the last few floors to the final boss's perch in SSMS-II. The game remains stable, but I do have one new late game menu that's busted. So, let's also continue putting our time and energy toward looking after each other as best we can and enjoying the fruits of our hobby labors.


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Post subject: Re: SSMS Criticism
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:58 am 
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@Wildbill @Draken .. Well said guys, I totally agree.

Quote:
"Maybe it's worth discussion in its own right"

It certainly IS with people who have played the game.

Quote:
"As for why I've not played the game, I prefer playing earlier games, when possible, and working my way up to the later games."

I'm sorry D-D BUT... this guy has no rights what so ever to come here and cry about a game's translation he hasn't even played himself,
I would just lock this topic and totally forget this conversation took place with him, clearly he's just out to try and get a reaction and
cause some type of rift between you guys, to what ends..? who knows.. maybe he's just jealous you guys are releasing such great work.

Keep up the good work D-D Team!!


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Post subject: Re: SSMS Criticism
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:19 pm 
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Damn, you sure have a lot of complaints for someone who is getting these translations for free! Seriously, it's not like you paid for them and want your money back. You're welcome to express your opinion freely, but don't go attacking and insulting people out of the blue. Especially because of some random Twitter post or bad review on RHDN. And by the way, there is no Romanian translation for SSMS, but thanks anyways for the vote of confidence. While I try to keep a neutral tone and the script translation as close to the original as possible, that doesn't mean that Wildbill or anyone else for the matter can't try using a different writing style to attempt to localize the script better for English speakers.

I don't know why people always accuse conservatives of being aggressive when it's you ultra liberals that attack everyone who doesn't agree with your views both verbally and physically. Seriously, I've seen huge mobs of liberals blindly attacking people who disagree with them far too often. In reality, there's nothing actually "liberal" about you people. You're more like the Spanish Inquisition, or rather the "liberal inquisition" I should say, aiming to destroy any and all opposition (not all liberals, just the ultra liberal ones). Trump won fair and square, now get over it and stop attacking his supporters everywhere you see. No conservatives went on wild destructive riots when Obama won. You can't expect to stay in power forever and rule with an iron fist that smashes all opposing views. As for the "can't spell in English comment", Wildbill and most conservative supporters in general are intelligent and have excellent grammatical skills. I've actually found that most liberal supporters are aggressive, hateful, intolerant, uneducated and misinformed about a lot of things in the world. Why do most of you tend to blindly follow what you hear on mainstream media without doing some actual research on your own first? Not to mention that Draken is right, this game was translated before Trump was even elected.

I've also had a few disagreements with Wildbill in the past, but we didn't start a flame war over it. Attacking someone's faith for no reason is never acceptable. I'm not at all religious, but I don't have a problem with a game that has Christian themes in it at all. Frankly, I truly don't see what the big problem is? If you've actually taken that time to speak with everyone here, you'll find that they're all highly intelligent, trustworthy and honest, nice people. Don't go around judging people based on what another person may have said about them without first finding out for yourself what they're really like. And again, sorry for any of you liberals reading this. My intention was not to attack all of you as a whole, but rather just the misguided ultra liberals that consistently target any and all conservatives out of pure hatred and spite.

Edit: I don't mean to continue this conversation for longer than it needs to be as I am getting tired of arguing about politics everywhere I go for years now, but I will say one last thing. Notice how everyone here was nice enough to let you post your comments and continue the discussion. If you try that anywhere else, you'll most likely get your thread locked and/or deleted. This is especially true on liberal forums where no conservatives can voice their opinion on anything. I've never seen such hypocrisy in my entire life as with most liberals these days. It seems like everything you accuse conservatives of doing, you do it yourselves and many times worse at that. RHDN even removed their entire "General Discussion" board just to silence everyone. You'll never see that type of thing here so remember that before you go throwing insults left and right. Byuu got banned on RHDN just because he disagreed with Nightcrawler on a minor moderation issue. Now seriously, what the heck is that? At least we don't have any people going on crazy power trips like that here...


"Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind."
- Edward D. Morrison (Tales of Phantasia)


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Post subject: Re: SSMS Criticism
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:47 pm 
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Well, I posted a few things and just deleted them. Let me just say this, when you want to actually try one of our translations and then come talk about it, we'll be glad to listen to respectful critiques or criticism you might give, until then, we frankly don't give a hoot about anything you have to say. Since you refuse to play our games, we don't consider you part of our target audience so why should we care what you think? I'm sorry if that sounds cold as we do care what players think, we just don't care what haters think. And you've obviously falling into the latter category with that last post. By talking about a game (Xak) you not only haven't played but have no idea what is even in it, it is obvious you just want to see how far you can cause trouble. Please go cause it elsewhere.

Recca: I'd even go further, conservatives usually respect the fact that others might have a different view than themselves but liberals don't think you should have that right. They want to force you to believe what they believe like it or not.


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Post subject: Re: SSMS Criticism
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:27 am 
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tcaud wrote:
I don't want to play translations that break the suspension of disbelief. That's bad gameplay.

You guys are pretty well wrapped around WildBill's finger, so I think the solution is to ask someone like Ein ni Hen to review the parts that have bogus political content in them and retranslate. Of course this will require access to the compression tools, which I hope will be available.

I'll play Aretha when it's done. I figured G.O.D. was a toad from the outset, not surprised its script is bland.
You're presenting potentially legitimate criticism in a confrontational, accusatory, and nonconstructive manner. You've stated your case, and heard from the people involved. I'm locking this thread from further "discussion".


The Devil takes notes from Lina Inverse? That sounds about right.

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Post subject: Re: SSMS Criticism
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:42 am 
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The thread is locked but I'd just like to say one final thing. We value feedback and we do take it into consideration in future projects. Please feel free to continue to bring issues you have to our attention. Please keep in mind that we also hear feedback from others and take it into consideration as well. And not everyone may have the same issue with something you have. In the end, the final call rests with those involved in the game. And we may not revisit the game in question even if we agree with the criticism as it just isn't a good use of our time to do so. I'm not talking about this issue in particular, just making a final general observation. It is not my place to speak for Wildbill and those involved with SSMS and if they agrees with the points raised about SSMS or not.


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