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Post subject: Aretha's Mixed Form complete list...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:15 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:05 pm
Posts: 137
Okay, I'm afraid this is going to be a bit long-winded, so sorry if you're expecting a short post. There's a lot to talk about, though, so I think it's justified. Anyway, let's begin:

This is a bit complicated, but I'll try my best to explain things clearly. First, I've made a complete list of all BASE Mixed Form combinations. By "BASE" I mean "Single Element". If you want to follow along, you'll need a copy of this file, which I've uploaded in both .xlsx and .docx formats here:

.xlsx: https://www.mediafire.com/file/gxafvy0u ... .xlsx/file
.docx: https://www.mediafire.com/file/8j4soy1i ... .docx/file

The reason you'll need this file is that each item you can make in Mixed Form is assigned a base number, which you can get from the file linked above. This is important because, despite creating the same items, the STATS are very different for all the items. That is, the more "Souls" you put into an item, the better the stats it will have (there are exceptions, which I'll mention later). Both files have been double checked for accuracy, so there's no mistakes in the numbers. Also, when you see me reference an item, like "E94", it means to open the file above and look at the "Earth" column, at "94" Souls (you'll see that item's name and stats there).

The first time I fiddled with Mixed Form, I just plugged in random numbers and ended up with results all over the place, unsurprisingly, so I decided to revisit Mixed Form with a slightly more methodical approach. Here's what I found: there is a rock-paper-scissors relationship going on with the elements. In the "Menu" screen, they are shown in this order:

Fire - Water - Air - Earth - Light

However, when combining multiple elements, the actual rock-paper-scissors order I mentioned is as follows:

Light - Air - Earth - Water - Fire

In this order above, "Light" is king of the hill, as it will beat any other element(s) when combining the same amounts of souls from each element.
"Light" beats "Air", "Earth", "Water", and "Fire".
"Air" beats "Earth", "Water", and "Fire".
"Earth" beats "Water" and "Fire".
"Water" beats "Fire".
"Fire" is the low man on the totem pole, as it doesn't (normally) beat any other element.

Before we go on, here's the item types each element creates:

Fire = Weapons
Water = Helms
Air = Rings/Accessories
Earth = Armors
Light = Shields

Keeping the rock-paper-scissors relationship in mind, it seems to me that each element is assigned a numerical importance, or 'weight', which I'll arbitrarily label like this:

100----------------80------------60-----------------40------------------20
Light (Shields) - Air (Rings) - Earth (Armors) - Water (Helms) - Fire (Weapons)

From now on, I'll just reference each element by its first letter when used with item numbers in combinations, as it keeps things simpler.

Note that you must find the Mixed Form NPC on Zaurus Mountain in order to make the strongest combinations, and I'll assume anyone interested in following along is doing Mixed Form there. Let's say you want to make the strongest Shield (Light). Well, "Light" beats any two other elements as long as the number of "Souls" per element is the same. Looking at the item list, we see that "Fire Shield" is made using 100 "Light Souls", so plugging in L100 - A100 - E100 (that's, Light 100 - Air 100 - Earth 100) will result in a much improved "Fire Shield". A tri-element combination's item stats will be significantly higher than with single- or double- element combinations. That's great for the "Fire Shield", since it's already L100 (at the end of the list), but it can only be equipped by Ariel, Doole, or Leila. What if, say, you wanted to make L92, the "Spiked Shld" (the strongest shield for Leila)? Well, if you were to enter the numbers L92 - A100 - E100, you would end up with the ARMOR "Velor". The reason for this is simple: every element, regardless of how high it sits in the hierarchy, can be forced to take a back seat to other elements IF you reduce that element's number of souls used in the combination. In order to make the strongest L92 (Spiked Shld), we'd have to use these numbers instead: L92 - A100 - E99, which gives it these stats: 0-102-82-(20)-84-92. Not bad, considering the base, single-element "Spiked Shld" has these stats: 0-4-(10)-(14)-(16)-92.

All stats are shown in this order, by the way: "Atk - Def - Mdef - Int - Spd - Skl" (negatives are shown in parentheses).

As you can see in the example above (with Light-Air-Earth), once "Light" fell below a certain threshold, it took a back seat to "Earth" and we ended up with an armor instead of a shield (yes, I know I said the hierarchy was L-A-E-W-F, and it is so, but with this particular combination it seems "Earth" trumps "Air"...with all other combinations that don't include "Light", "Air" beats all other elements). I don't have exact numbers as to where each item's threshold is at, as that would require quite a bit of experimentation on my part, and I don't really have that much free time at the moment. However, if you only want a much stronger item (rather than the one with the best stats), a rough rule of thumb is to use the same numbers in your combinations as the BASE item you're trying to make (making sure to reduce the number of souls in any higher-tier elements until you end up with your desired item). This isn't as much of a problem if you're combining "down", that is, following the rock-paper-scissors order. For example, if you wanted the strongest RING/ACCESSORY (Air), your combinations will be easier if you use A#-E#-W#, A#-W#-F#, or A#-E#-F#, since you only have to reduce the number of souls to the right (or, going downward). If you were to try combining L - A - E, you'd first have to reduce the number of "Light Souls" on the left before taking care of reducing the number of "Earth Souls" on the right. It *can* be done, and you very well might want to do so for reasons we'll talk about next.

Another thing I noticed is that each element seems to have its own stat type enhancement. These are very rough, mind you, and they're probably not 100% correct, but they should be close enough for our purposes. From what I've seen, each element enhances the following stats:

Fire = Attack Stat
Water = Mdef / Int Stats
Air = Speed
Earth = Def / Mdef
Light = Def / Mdef / Skl

This means that you can alter a base item's stats and have some control as to what you end up with. Bear in mind that the game won't let you do anything silly, like trying to increase an ARMOR's "Atk" stat, or trying to increase a WEAPON's "Def" stat (both these stats are always zero). As an example, let's say you love the E94 armor (Scroll - Earth 94), with the stats 0-494-627-133-(80)-(15), but hate how the base stat drastically lowers both your "Spd" and "Skl". Let's see if we can change that. Looking at our 'stat enhancement list' above, we see that "Speed" and "Skill" fall under "Air" and "Light", respectively, so let's start with this: E94 (because this is our target) + Highest Element + Lowest Element. We already know our first number (E94) because this is our target, and the highest element (of the remaining two for this combination) is "Light", which means that "Air" is our third and lowest element. Putting all these together, we end up with this:

E94 + L## + A##

I'll assume you can use save states, as this will be incredibly time-consuming for you otherwise. Since our target is in the upper ranges (90-100), and it happens to be in the lowest 'rock-paper-scissors' spot (in this example), let's subtract 25 from the maximum "Light" and "Air" numbers, which will give us L75 and A75. You should use a save state here.

E94 + L75 + A75, then press "Start" to do the combination. And...we get an "Ice Shield", which tells us that the number for "Light" (Shields) is too high, so reload your save state and LOWER ONLY the "Light" number by one, then try the combination again. Repeat this loop of lowering "Light" by one and combining the elements until you get a "Coin" item (which will mean the "Light" element has fallen below the required number for the next element, "Air", to take precedence, and, if you look at the chart, A75 = "Coin"). Jot down the number at which "Light" was when you finally ended up with a "Coin". If you actually followed these steps, you should see the number for "Light" was 64 when "Coin" was made, so let's use that number now:

E94 + L64 + A75

Remember that loop we just did with "Light", reducing the number by 1, then trying the combination? Well, now we get to do that for "Air". Again, use a save state at this point, then subtract one ONLY from "Air", then try the combination (it should produce a RING/ACCESSORY). Continue doing this loop until you end up with either an item from the previous loop (Light = Shields), or our target item (E94 = Scroll). In this example, once you reach A72, the item made will be a "Thun Shld". Now, we are here:

E94 + L64 + A72 = Thun Shld

This means we have to start our previous "Light" loop again, but this time from our PRESENT number (that is, 64), and we'll reduce it by one, then 'Start' the combination until we end up with a RING/ACCESSORY (which will match our present number, that is, A72=Light Ring). Once you reach L63, the item made will be "Light Ring", so this is our present "recipe":

E94 + L63 + A72 = Light Ring

Now, work on the "Air" loop, again, reducing by one and performing the combination until you end up with either a Shield (from our previous loop) or our target item (E94). If you end up with another Shield, repeat the "Light" loop until you end up with the appropriate RING/ACCESSORY, then begin the outer, "Air" loop until you end up with our target item (E94).

Keep doing the loops until you reach your target, E94. For me, this happened at E94 + L62 + A71.
This combination (E94 + L62 + A71) gave the following stats:
E94 (Scroll) New stats = 0 - 459 - 591 - 132 - (28) - 43
E94 (Scroll) Base stats= 0 - 494 - 627 - 133 - (80) - (15)
We set out to improve E94's "Speed" and "Skill" stat, and it clearly worked, as "Spd" has increased considerably (though it's still a negative number), and "Skl" is no longer a negative, but a positive number. Sure, this does sacrifice some "Def" and "Mdef", but I think it's a nice trade. Now, there ARE other combinations possible...I used different starting numbers for the above example and ended up with these numbers instead:
E94 + L77 + A56
E94 (Scroll) New Alt. stats = 0 - 478 - 596 - 118 - (43) - 62

I'm not sure there's really a BEST set of numbers, as they all seem to have drawbacks (which cause the item stats to be adjusted accordingly, though the changes aren't that big).

As a general rule, the more "Souls" you put into an item, the better the stats it will have. There are some exceptions. The main exceptions are W3, L4, W13, L17, A24, A44, W83, F91, W92, and W93. At first glance, they appear to be average items. A closer inspection, however, reveals that these items all follow the exact same item (that is, the previous item in that element is the same item as the one in question, e.g. W3 and W2 are both "Mask" items). Also, each of these items has LOWER stats than the previous, identical item, and sometimes the difference is quite noticeable (compared to the previous item, that is, see W92 and W93, then compare them with W91). At first, I thought there might be more to these items with unusually low stats, as they're out of place and they stand out when looking at the chart. I've tried combining some of them, but the results pretty much follow the basic rules I observed above, so there's *probably* nothing special about these items.

I'm sure there's a formula to calculate exact numbers, but it's beyond me. If any mathematics geniuses read this and want to try tackling it, feel free to use the charts I uploaded above and my ideas above as a starting point, just bear in mind that a lot of it is guesswork on my part (so there may be a few things which end up being wrong). If I had to summarize everything above, it would be this: every item can be "upgraded" with tri-elemental combination, it's just a matter of picking the target number and making sure the other elements' numbers don't go HIGHER and step into another element's 'boundary' (in the rock-paper-scissors sense, as that will override your target).

I know it sounds confusing and time-consuming, but it's actually pretty quick once you do this a couple of times. Well, if nothing else, maybe the single-element combination list will help someone.

Any questions or comments, post away.


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Post subject: Re: Aretha's Mixed Form complete list...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:05 pm
Posts: 137
I was thinking about this explanation this morning, and it struck me that it's probably not the best way to explain things. I came up with an alternate, simpler example which I think will be easier to understand. Borrowing from what I said earlier:

Keeping the rock-paper-scissors relationship in mind, it seems to me that each element is assigned a numerical importance, or 'weight', which I'll arbitrarily label like this:

100----------------80------------60-----------------40------------------20
Light (Shields) - Air (Rings) - Earth (Armors) - Water (Helms) - Fire (Weapons)

First, let's pretend that there's a scale with 3 plates, one for each element, and this scale 'weighs' each element (by number of souls). Obviously, the heaviest plate will be the lowest. The heaviest, or lowest, plate, determines the combination result.

Now, we put 100 Light Souls on Plate 1. Plate 2 will hold 100 Air Souls, and Plate 3 will hold 100 Earth Souls. Since each plate is holding 100 Souls each, you'd think they all weigh the same, but that's not taking into account the arbitrary number we assigned to each element. In this example, I assigned 100 to Light, 80 to Air, and 60 to Earth (40 for Water and 20 for Fire, but neither of those elements are part of this example).

So, Plate 1 with 100 Light Souls actually has 100 Light Souls + 100 (our arbitrary number, which is wrong but serves to illustrate what I'm talking about).

Plate 1 total = 100 Light Souls + 100 Arbitrary number = 200
Plate 2 total = 100 Air Souls + 80 Arbitrary number = 180
Plate 3 total = 100 Earth Souls + 60 Arbitrary number = 160

So, our total 'weights' come to 200, 180, and 160. As you can see, 200 is the heaviest, so this plate will be the lowest (the lowest, or 'heaviest', plate will determine which item you receive for that combination).

If your target item is in the Light element, it's easier to manipulate the numbers because Light is the heaviest element to begin with. If your target item is in the Air element, you have to manipulate the numbers in the other two plates (elements) so that the number on Plate 2 is the heaviest. Obviously, if your target is in the Earth element, you'd have to adjust the numbers on the other two plates a little more to ensure that Plate 3 is the heaviest of all plates, since Earth is the 'lightest' of these 3 elements.

From what I've seen, it doesn't seem to make any difference whatsoever the elemental sequence (that is, it doesn't matter whether you use Light - Air - Earth or Earth - Light - Air, the item and stats will always be the same. The important thing is the numbers themselves, not the order in which they're placed on the "plates".)

Not much to say about this "arbitrary number," aside from the fact that it doesn't appear to be a fixed number. There's probably a complicated calculation to figure this number out, but that's beyond me.


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