Hoping to make your life's design a bit more dynamic!

Oh well, I'll post my own. (I have a profile on a website where I already have listed my top 10, so I just have to copy/paste) Not sure I'll catch any attention but ... There it is (It's quite a varied and unusual one though) :

1- Romancing SaGa: Minstrel Song
2- Tales of the Abyss
3- Live A Live
4- Mystic Ark
5- Suikoden II
6- Shadow Hearts: Covenant (On a side-note, the game is lame if you don't have finished the 1st before !)
7- Romancing Saga 3
8- Terranigma
9- Final Fantasy IV
10- Unlimited Saga

It may change with the course of time ...

I am happy to see that Mystic Ark achieved a high ranking, despite your relative disappointment in the ending.

Well, you know, the Ending is not everything.
What I'll remember the most with Mystic Ark, is a whole of many things : When I first played it, the waiting, then the surprise when I came to play it in English, the incredible run through the game, the excitation ... Indeed the Ending didn't made to my hopes, but it's not all that I felt when I played this game. When I think I've played this game like madness and finished its 41 hours in like 4 or 5 days, it's quite something. (Only one other game have done that to me, that was Tales of the Abyss, I had load of free time and ... Well, 61 hours on 4 or 5 days)

Though, all of that is thanks to you all, and that's why I'm still thankful to you and I thank you again for that amazing translation. (Though I've been missing for awhile without leaving a sign, and I'm still sorry for that, I've been shameful for a moment I must say)

A game is a whole of things and memories, which make you'll remember it. Mystic Ark, if the ending didn't comes to my hopes, still captived my heart at its bottom, that is why, I won't forget it and I thanks you for the translation and the surprise you made to me. (And when I'm at it, you should know that not many things satisfy me on the ending. I'm quite difficult on the ending, even TotA had not an ending that satisfied me. On the games on my list, I would say only Romancing SaGa, SH2 and Terranigma, had endings that satisfied me. So don't worry to much about that, maybe it's just me, but it's not really complaints ... :p)

Though, it's good to see you again. (As you see, I like to write a lot just like before ... Maybe too much, anyway)

Hey Remilia, nice to see you at the new forum! I was wondering where my fellow MA best tester was.

And yeah, I'll have to agree with you on Mystic Ark. It was a great game, but the ending was not quite my cup of tea. Terrangima had a similar issue too in my opinion. Although the ending wasen't as confusing as MA's, it seemed very needlessly sad in my opinion. Way too many character deaths. I just hope that the guy who knocked at Elle's door at the end of the game is Light Ark with Dark Ark's memory and appearance. Maybe they left the ending so inconclusive so that everyone could draw their own conclusions?

Then again, I dislike most game endings. I really don't know why most people enjoy such bittersweet endings. I'm personally very tired and annoyed of the sterotypical "Well I've saved the world from eternal darkness, but my brother/sister/best friend is dead who was the only person who every gave my life meaning. Now it has none... And thus, whomever saved the world and also got screwed over. THE END!" Eh, well I guess that I just like complete victories. Plots can still be interesting and dark without any main or secondary character dying. I've seen it done before like in the SNES RPG; Monstania. I'm very picky when it comes to endings. I like neither childish nor overly dark plots. Gack, I think I'll stop before I trail off. I used to tend to do that a lot on other fourms too... -_-;

I won't write an essay here about my opinion, as I too, like Recca can trail off big time if left unchecked, but I feel tragedy is something we must learn to face.
Its not because its fiction that the worst that could possibly happen will be averted; we know that all too often that is the case with real life too.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no masochist nor I relish in pessimism. I think of myself as a realist for a lot of things, and that clashes directly with my idealistic essence.

I don't tend to face life with kind eyes, although I do have safekept in me a haven of peace populated by my most dear few, and because of that I don't think we live in a vacation resort, although life shouldn't be a penal colony either, extremes tend to be a choice, but somewhat of a middle ground is a necessity if you want to be able to deal with people.

In all, enigmatic, thought provoking endings are a good thing in my eyes, even ladden with grief, grief may be painful, but it makes us wiser, if we let it.
It is my firm opinion that everything has a facet we can learn from, and that includes of course, video games.
I remember when I played Final Fantasy 7. At the end of disc 1, when Sephiroth kills Aeris, I felt such a terrible pain that I didn't think I'd be able to muster the courage to play through the rest of the game; and I hated Sephiroth, something so tactible that he seemed to me like a real person.

The pain eventually subsided, but when I had the showdown with Hojo, I hated again, but he in Sephiorth's stead - I understood the true nature of the situation at that point, the hatred became something else, sorrow overall, and pity for Sephiroth.
When it was all over I felt empty, I wish the game had lasted longer, because it made me grow so much, so quickly, through a painful venue, truth be told, but I realize the greatness of the experience. I don't think a happy-happy ending would have satisfied me, leave that to silly games like Kirby or Mario.

Anyway, just my two cents, I guess I did trail off ^.^'

I agree with you. People use to call me a pessimist, but I think of myself as a realistic person.

That scene where Aeris was killed is still very live on my mind, it was a great shock, but I think it was a nescessary step to my maturation, not only as a gamer but as person.

I'm a lot with RedSoul's point of view, sorry Recca. :p

You say dramatic endings are cliches. I say no : How many dramatic endings are there in RPGs ? I see very few. It always end "everything is fine, we killed the great villiain with no many victims, it's so great, alright let's get back to annoying normal life everyone". It's simply ... Boring. Such, I love dramatic ending. I love games with lot of tragedy. I love tragedy, damn !

I'm not pessimist. But if we play games, isn't it also for evasion ? What's the point with evasion is the story never go off, if everything is always fine and happy ? Leaves that to very-old-school RPG that haven't any great story, this isn't the point today. There must be joy, but here must be sadness, becaues it's life. All the stories I write (Because I love story-telling), are always a lot tragic. But then again, it's because this is what captive my heart the most, and like many other peoples : It's simple how things are ...

I'll be spoiling a little Suikoden II here, but I just finished Suikoden II a little while ago, and here my MSN undername is : "Dans les jeux qui ont un bad ending meilleurs que le good ending, je demande "Suikoden II"", which is translated by : "In the games which bad ending is better than the good ending, I ask Suikoden II". Why so ? Because the bad ending is more realistic and tragic. While the good ending is silly; peoples you thought deaths aren't, there is reconciliation that couldn't happen, and so. Well, "total victories" it definitively not my thing. I rather the bad ending on that point, even though I've spend many times getting all the 108 stars just for choosing the bad ending I should have get without them.

And by that, many of my favorite RPGs goes very tragic on their storyline. Just Live-A-Live and Tales of the Abyss. The Knight story of Live-A-Live is maybe one of the greatest tragedy in videogame, showing off something that is barely ever seen in videogames. And I loved that. No don't get the idea I'm pessimist or whatever, I'm someone very optimist ! However, I do find "total victories" in great story-line boring, and a great-storyline in my sense have some tragedy, even a little, making the "total victory" ending even more lazy I think. Without saying the ending must be dark and gloomy, heh; but things like "Everyone who is death is back to life, if ever anyone were death, the world is as stable as ever, yeepee". I love bittersweeting endings like it is. Tales of the Abyss is one of the greatest example for me : The story-line is so much immerged into pessimism, that in the end, even if everything come back to normal, you're not sure what to think, and what is the state of the Score anyway, with the written end of the world if it would happen or not.

That's why ... It is my point of view, but if the game is in tragedy, then we face more emotion, and more emotion mean we will more remember these in our hearts. Didn't you get those warm feelings of sadness when one of your favorite characters dies in a game ? Don't tell me you totally dislike such ? It's not happy, yes, but ... Anyway, you love Tales of Phantasia, Recca, no ? Well, have nothing to say of the beginning ? I've found so great this scathing beginning (Though the rest of the game is not), I'll always remember the music "Be Absterminded" by that very scene. That's what I love in videogame : Memorable memories. And such, I'll barely get any if the game is plundged into optimism (Or, at least, may it be more "neutral", or "toward reconstruction" after a great mess, and not totally "happy and such").

But isn't the whole point of these games to save the world and everyone innocent in it? What's the point in playing if you don't accomplish that? You might as well lose at the last boss and have every person in the world die. Such nonsense in my opinion. I also find the "realistic" arguement laughable. So, if everyone in the team or whatever lives at the end, that's not realistic, yet the use of magic and godlike powers are? A person who wants realism such not play play video games as they are not real. Besides, the whole point of playing games is to escape from reality when you're tired from work or school, not throw yourself in a whirlpool of depression. As I stated in my post above, a plot and still be dark and interesting without any main or secondary character dying.

And yes, I like Tales of Phantasia, but not the beginning nor ending. The game play is very fun and the characters are cool. I mostly enjoyed looking for the spirits in the past and exploring Thor. As you could have guessed, the death of Edward annoyed me. That scene would have still been great even without that. Ironicly, it seemed stupid of Edward to stand his ground after attacking. So his death was very unrealistic to me. Don't get me wrong. I hate childish games too, but I also dislike overly dark ones.

It's just like Al said in the Fullmetal Alchemist manga; "Why are there only two choices? We can save the world and get out bodies back!" Indeed, the world can be saved without sacrificing yourself or those you love. I'll always fight for complete victories like the main characters. Ah, this must be about the fifth forum or so where I had the same discussion. Darn I trail off so much sometimes...

From a writer's viewpoint, nothing is more tragic than some of the fates that befall real people, so much so that commentators will often remark that life is imitating art. Converting composite life situations of the human experience into fiction, one of our main objectives is to devise a realistic plot. According to the professors, only about three dozen basic plots exist. If true, everything we enjoy in the world of fiction, regardless of the medium, is a variation of one of these.

To be technically viable to the so-called experts, every tale must end with a resolution that is cast in stone from the beginning. The first sentence in every fiction story must basically state a dramatic change in the status quo of a main character. In Burning Heroes, Ryu's father is abandoning him. In Lennus-II, a 10,000 year sleeper is awakening. In Mystic Ark, Remeer is awakened in a temple after being snatched from a womb, allegorically. In Slayers, what appears to be the omnipotent Lina Inverse is found lying helpless on the ground. In Hourai, a kid who has lived his entire life somewhere else is parachuted out of a plane into an unknown new life. After a few paragraphs, pages, or screens, the resolution is already set. In Burning Heroes, Ryu must become strong and find out why his father abandoned him. In Lennus-II, Farus must precipitate the Great Union. In Mystic Ark, Remeer must return to the world from whence he came. In Hourai, the hero must land safely and succeed at everything he does while attending an exclusive island school.

Here is what makes fiction work, what creates drama and suspense. All along the way, as the hero or protagonist proceeds. he must appear to be having so many setbacks and facing so many obstacles that he appears to be getting further and further from his goal. As events proceed, he must appear to be up against insurmountable odds and facing hopeless situations. In fact, the hero is really making constant progress toward the obvious resolution, but in a properly written story, the reader is uncomfortable. He feels in his gut that the hero is frequently on the verge of abject failure.

The rest of the mechanics and characters in the story are just details, twists, turns, foreshadowing, mini climaxes, side stories, foils, and intrigue. If it all comes together and works, we will be pleased overall, but devising a plot that is too fantastic generally fails, even though we enhance the skills and stature of the main characters and adversaries, oftentimes portraying them as almost super-entities. In the end though, because of the technical limitations of successful story-writing to remain credible in general, truth is often stranger than fiction.

In the end, I don't see any of you as being right or wrong overall. It comes down to your own unique individuality. For the professional writer, however, many of us are so obsessed with dissecting the technical merits of someone else's work, we rarely allow a story to touch us on a personal or emotional level, especially fiction, except for certain scenes that we closely identify with our own lives.

Well we COULD hack the game so that after our hero falls through the roof he dies and the game ends. Can you imagine buying that game. You load it up. Start it up, the hero dies and the game is over before you do anything haha.

(Come on, you knew full well I couldn't let that opportunity slide by without saying something stupid nobody wants to hear.)