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Post subject: Re: Is it ok if i make a request?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:00 pm 
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taskforce wrote:
Red Soul wrote:
Aye, more laugher is in order, and contrary to what some may think I believe laugher is much harder to draw out than tears...
human suffering is just too highly ingrained in each of us no matter where we turn, what's the news in that?
that's why I can't stand drama stuff.
Not saying we should all make fools of ourselves and laugh at every little thing in life, but still sadness seems
to carry a stronger presence in most people than joy.


I disagree with you there Red Soul. Yes, sadness can be easy to pull off. Well written powerful despair and sadness that really tugs on your heart-strings can be much more of a challenge. The only reason sadness seems easier, is because you see it done half-arsed so much. Sadness is easily recognized half-arsed or not unlike humor. Good powerful despair and sadness though, are really a challenge. Also, recently I wish game makers would lose the shock value sadness that is starting to catch on in games (mostly because it got rampant in anime and games tend to follow suit)

What I mean by shock value sadness, is a death that happens to a main character or a side character just to shock you. The death will be a pretty meaningless affair overall, and only happened because the creators wanted to shock you that they did it. Too bad its gotten so common that there is no shock value to it these days. It will be a somewhat sad event but overall the death is meaningless and it really doesn't do much beyond make you upset. If you want a good example from Tales of Legendia. *SPOILER ALERT* The death of Grune at the end of Tales of Legendia's Epilogue is a great example of a shock value death. The death was very meaningless, it was simply done because they could to piss you off. And it wasn't much of a sad event in the end because of this *SPOILER END*

Now a good powerful death scene on the other hand, when you feel invested in the character and they die for good cause or reasons, can be quite a powerful thing. There has been plenty of examples of this over the years as well. Phantasy Star 4 comes to mind for me. *SPOILER ALERT* The death of Alys in Phantasy Star IV is the one I think of to fit this bill. *END SPOILER*

At any rate, when someone dies protecting their comrades because they're the only one that can. Taking a blow means saving a life? Sure it is, but is it common to real life? Certainly not. Thus I think it makes them all the more powerful. The shock value deaths are far more true to real life, and it maybe because they are that they carry less impact. The point is, sadness can be harder to pull off properly in my opinion. A long ways for a short message eh :(
I'm surprised you didn't weave in the event of the kid-warrior in Popful Mail. Back when we were playing it, that scene really ripped you!


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Post subject: Re: Is it ok if i make a request?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:03 pm 
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Recca wrote:
Personally, I see all main and side character deaths as pointless and stupid. Most if not all of the time, the fight could be won without anyone dying. Bah, I see it as weakness of the script writer! I can sway people's emotions without any corny death scenes. I hate the whole "You saved the world, but your brother/sister/best friend died... tough luck!). I dislike this so much that at times I can turn down and not play a perfectly good game because of it. Most story writers these days can't really seem to balance their stories. Either it's completely childish and lame or a overly dark and sadistic plot which makes no sense. I've written better manga plots.

Edit: Of course, I'm talking about most of the game writers today, not anyone here. Wildbill does great work on game scripts. :)


I donno Recca, there are certain times when I find it fits the events. A good example is in the Arc the Lad anime/Arc the Lad II game. I thought the scene where Mariel dies (especially in the anime) was necessary and handled well. The game scene wasn't quite as well done and the anime rewrite was much needed especially considering the media.

At any rate, that is just me. Arc the Lad II might have been too dark for you in general. I donno.


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Post subject: Re: Is it ok if i make a request?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:33 pm 
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Personally I didn't feel much at all for Alys death in PSIV...Nei's death in PSII really messed me up somehow though (so much that I refused to play for a long time).
I see your point with the banalization of sadness, but we can't forget that half of what we feel is up to us and the rest is to the writer...much of the impact
will depend on the audience, so it can be hard to measure what's corny and isn't regarding scripts.
In my above example, Nei's death was much more predictable than Alys's when Neifirst was made known, but still it affected me much more.
Heh maybe I'm the corny one.


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Post subject: Re: Is it ok if i make a request?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:56 pm 
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Red Soul wrote:
Personally I didn't feel much at all for Alys death in PSIV...Nei's death in PSII really messed me up somehow though (so much that I refused to play for a long time).
I see your point with the banalization of sadness, but we can't forget that half of what we feel is up to us and the rest is to the writer...much of the impact
will depend on the audience, so it can be hard to measure what's corny and isn't regarding scripts.
In my above example, Nei's death was much more predictable than Alys's when Neifirst was made known, but still it affected me much more.
Heh maybe I'm the corny one.

I know what you mean and I feel the same way. Alys' death in PSIV made me more angered rather than sad. If Chaz would have gotten out of the darn way rather than sitting still on the spot and shaking in fear, no one would have died. I honestly feel that they got rid of Alys in the game solely for the purpose of clearing up a spot in the team for Wren and Raja. As for Nei, that was different and I did feel more sad about her dying. Though I still find it strange since you can use rever or dew to bring her back to life and fight Nei First along with the party. If Nei First was the original and died, why did her clone, Nei, die too? I mean, they are different organisms after all. If a clone dies, the other doesn't. They really should have made a player alternative choice to this...


"Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind."
- Edward D. Morrison (Tales of Phantasia)


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Post subject: Re: Is it ok if i make a request?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:19 pm 
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I agree there, I don't think the programmers thought that out too well there.
Not to mention you can bring Nei to the clone labs and get her back no problem before you fight Neifirst, and later the NPC claims
they don't clone "monsters" heh...mighty silly.
What redeemed this whole mess to me a little was the presence of Rika in PSIV, but still it makes no sense for clones to have
a psychic link, as you said.


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Post subject: Re: Is it ok if i make a request?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:06 pm 
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Yeah I know that...but as far as I know the game is in japanese, so its not much of an encouragement.


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Post subject: Re: Is it ok if i make a request?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:20 pm 
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I would absoultely positevely LOOOVE to see

ENERGY.

BREAKER.

I almost never type in all caps so you can see how excited I am at the prospect of someday playing this.

Like Chaos seed, this is a totally hidden gem that most people do not know about BUT, is probably on par with other more well known gems like Star Ocean, Tales of Phantasia, Treasure Hunter G and Sieken Denestu 3.

If you have not seen the youtube video you, my friend, are missing out (wait for 2 minutes in as the music is really good):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye24QXJWdM8

When people say translators have just about exhausted all the potential snes rpgs that need to be done in English, I call tell them they are not looking hard enough:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBKMDVBH ... re=related

And, Far East of Eden falls into that group too. Along with the aforementioned CS and EB, this could have been a blockbuster up their with CT, Terr., SoM and other famous USA snes rpgs. It seems these games deserve mention with SO, THG, SD3 and ToP, etc. at the least!!

Far east of eden zero falls into that category, or should!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9fELeVETtk

Although I give translators soo much credit, they have picked up some incredible games like the ones I have mentioned or Lennus 2 or Wozz or Hourai High, etc.

But I would love to see

Energy Breaker
Far East of Eden
Chaos seed

As these are truly very hidden gems

And hopefully Arabian nights is completed soon


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Post subject: Re: Is it ok if i make a request?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:09 pm 
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I can say for certain that Energy Breaker is being worked on, and indeed has been really close to completion for several years now. (I've personally played an extremely strong beta version of the patch.) The hacker does not have a lot of time at present, however, and there are strong issues that cause the game to crash and burn in unfortunately spectacular ways, and as such it can't be released as yet.


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Post subject: Re: Is it ok if i make a request?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:57 am 
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Oh wow that is really good news. It looks like it would be a complex game to work on. I admire your hard work!


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Post subject: Re: Is it ok if i make a request?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:47 am 
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I never claimed to be the one doing it! In fact, I thought "I've personally played an extremely strong beta version of the patch." and "The hacker does not have a lot of time at present" was a pretty clear way of telegraphing that I am in fact NOT the one doing it. I've just been privy to a private bate.


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